Wednesday, 13 July 2011

The knuckle dragging continues

Our 'neighbour' is so unbelievable. The children and the obligatory staffordshire bull terrier need to be rescued from the thugs that call themselves parents.

Mr KD (Knuckle Dragger), has just had a whole minute shouting fest at one of his many kids. "I didn't bring you up to be f***ing nasty ......." blah blah
"you p"""ed me off..... and made me f***ing shout. I don't like shouting....." You could've fooled me, considering you do it every day.

The KDs haven't worked out that the poor children are a result of being brought up in such a vitriolic environment and one day, will shout louder than their parents. One day, they might show their fangs to them as well and bite their big fat heads off.

I'm all for social inclusion, but these effing & blinding, always angry, blood sucking, knuckle draggers contribute nothing but poison to our community. They are a failing social experiment and I can only hope the poor children are saved before they are ruined.

20 comments:

Pete said...

Record their shouting and play it back to them at night through hidden speakers in their walls. Explain that the house is haunted, having once been lived in by an old buddhist monk, and that the building automatically excorcises all expressions of anger or ill-temper by relaying them in the night.

They will either change or leave.

Doctor Pangloss said...

It is said that a handful of prawns (well hidden) would emit such a pungent odour as to drive all living beings from a house.

Of course, I cannot condone such behaviour.

PlumBun said...

They sound just like the type of people you dream of living next door to....Call social services. I assume they are council? Can't you have them rehomed?

Anonymous said...

One wonders why you and many of your readers live in Plumstead. There is a kind of schizophrenia about your attitudes which none of you seem to be aware that you possess.

On the one hand you talk up Plumstead’s many assets and advantages (and rightly so) while on the other bemoan the absence of the right type of pubs or caf├ęs. More worryingly you also spend a lot of time complaining about the type of people who live here.

Now, you can’t have it both ways. If you want a nice middle class enclave then you should buy in Balckheath or Greenwich where, with the exception of the exception of the small rump of public housing which remains public, almost everyone is middle class. You won’t have to come across the cross section of society that lives in Plumstead. However, I suspect that the reason that you don’t buy in Balckheath or Greenwich is that you can’t afford to. While you sing loudly in praise of Plumstead , you secretly or sub-consciously resent having to live here. And so much of your efforts seem to go into trying to make the area as attractive to as many other like minded people as possible in the hope that they move in and Plumstead gradually becomes like Blackheath by stealth.

It looks from the outside like a woman who marries an unsuitable man in the hope that she will change him.

Yes, there are problem neighbours; yes, there can be antisocial behaviour; and yes, this is more prevalent among people who are educationally, economically and socially disadvantaged.

If you have suffered from antisocial behaviour have my sympathy. However, what is worrying is the way you label people as ‘chavs1’, ‘knuckle-draggers’, or even ‘The Shameless, the great unwashed, dole scum, soap dodgers, spongers, work-shy’.

If your problem neighbour happened to be black – I doubt you would blog about the nigger next door. Similarly if your neighbour was Asian, I doubt that you would refer to the problem Paki.

It is an interesting phenomenon that has developed over recent years that the only racial groups that the liberal, Guardian reading public feel comfortable lumping together and pre-judging2 are:
• Gypsies – ‘Pikies’, ‘Gypos’ etc; and
• The white working class – ‘White trash’ or some of your own endearing terms ‘chavs’, ‘knuckle-draggers’, ‘The Shameless, the great unwashed, dole scum, soap dodgers, spongers, work-shy’.

I was born in this area and I’ve lived here pretty much all my life and, to be honest, I find your stereotyping offensive and worrying in equal measure. How long before you call for the compulsory sterilisation of the lower orders or what, in Victorian times (before the development of the welfare state) was known as the undeserving poor.

Continued….

Anonymous said...

Continued….

If you demonise someone, if you make them seem less worthwhile then it becomes acceptable to treat them very badly and they can become a scapegoat in society. That is what happened with the Jews in Nazi Germany and why so many nice middle class people turned a blind eye to what happened to them. And please don’t tell me that the working class is racist. Yes, some will be but as a class I think you’ll find more mixing, relationships and intermarriages in the working class than in higher socio-economic groups.


Dr Panglos: “I'm all for social inclusion, but these effing & blinding, always angry, blood sucking, knuckle draggers contribute nothing but poison to our community. They are a failing social experiment and I can only hope the poor children are saved before they are ruined.”

Tell me, what is the social experiment you refer to (perhaps the policy of selling but not building any council houses in the last 30 years – a policy that has meant that only the most educationally, economically and socially disadvantaged are in public housing thus concentrating these social problems)?

And, what is the (final) solution? Perhaps some of your readers can help with that:
“We also have some Shameless style neighbours in the locality. They like to sit on the front door step drinking cans of lager (probably cider actually) and SHOUT at each other. Not in an angry sense, more as in that is just the only volume they know. Why they persist in sitting on the front step like pikeys is beyund [sic] me when they all have perfectly good back gardens. It's not like they are even going browner. They are still that grey colour in their ill fitting Asda outfits and look like they could all do with a Daz doorstep challenge, for their clothes and their bodies.”
“Record their shouting and play it back to them at night through hidden speakers in their walls. Explain that the house is haunted, having once been lived in by an old buddhist monk, and that the building automatically excorcises [sic] all expressions of anger or ill-temper by relaying them in the night.”
“They sound just like the type of people you dream of living next door to....Call social services. “I assume they are council? Can't you have them rehomed [sic]?”
Oooh no, I hate it when irresponsible people have dogs ( and children). Definitely call the RSPCA if they are being mean to the dogs. Call the council too if they are being a nuisance with noise etc.
If I was in charge, I would pull the plug on all these benefit spongers. They get a *****g fortune from our taxes!!!”

More succinct and to the point though is this contribution:
“My advice? Shoot the lot of 'em.”


You pondered in an earlier blog: “I don't know if there's a sociological study into chav culture (an oxymoron if ever there were one), but I've wondered why it is that the chavvier the person is, the louder they are.”


Might I recommend two books:
The likes of us by Michael Collins; and
Chavs – the demonization of the working class by Owen Jones




1 - Chav has its origins in the Romani word "chavi", meaning child. Many Romani gypsy words have found their way into, in particular, the cockney or east end vernacular. Another example is ‘mush’ for man or ‘mate’. This linguistic mixing has its origins in the times when gypsies and the poor from the east end would take seasonal work hop picking in Kent.

2 – the word prejudice means and has its etymological roots in to pre-judge.

Anonymous said...

I have had neighbour prpblems myself and I strongly urge you to keep a list of all the times their music was too loud or they said something offensive to you or damaged your property: all these are grounds for action and you can get in touch with the council or the housing association or your community police. However, if all you are objecting to is the way they swear or bring up their children then there is not a lot oyou can do but live and let live. But please do one or the other as I find your ranting about other citizens and your calling them names like chaves or knuckle draggers or worse pikeys (which is as offensive a term to a Gypsy Traveller as it as the N word is to black people or the P word to Asians) very offensive. If you don't want to live among people who do not share your black and white view of life where WE are all the lovely polite middle class people and THEM are all those working class people who swear and shout then I would advise you to move to Blackheath or somewhere like that or can't you afford it? OPh, shame!

Anonymous said...

I am of a Traveller background and I abhor your comments (us Gypsies can use long words and if you prick us we bleed) about working class people and I object to your use of the word pikey. That is a deeply offensive word. You complain about the way your neighbours bring up their children but if you have any you must be bringing them up as deeply intolerant and hateful. Get a life!

Doctor Pangloss said...

Thanks for your input. Pity you choose to remain anonymous as I can't address you directly.

I'm not ranting about a whole section of society here, only one household. I would welcome them whoever they are however poor they are etc, but this one family have alienated themselves. The offensive language riles me, but they have actually been offensive to one of my neighbours who only made the mistake of looking in their direction. The poor children are shouted and sworn at and that really concerns me. Do you think that's acceptable?

As for moving to Blackheath, I can afford it, but choose The Shire.

Anonymous said...

Dr P, I love your blog, but I'm afraid I agree with the long anonymous poster. Please use the privilege of your education to reflect on the attitudes you may inadvertantly be condoning.
Also, don't you think your neighbours can look on the internet and see what you're saying about them?
If your neighbours really are a genuine problem (noise, etc) then you should go through the appropriate authorities at the Council. It's good to vent, but perhaps this public blog is not the right venue to air your frustrations.

Anonymous said...

Hello Dr Pangloss,

I am the long anonymous poster. Let’s call me Dr X and if I post again I will sign it thus (and, despite being born in a council house, I am a Dr). I am ‘anonymous’ only because I don’t have a Google account or a blog or an open account or a name / URL. But in truth I am no more anonymous than you.

I’m glad that you chose to live in Plumstead rather than Blackheath; it’s a lovely place here. Welcome to my world.

But be honest with yourself. Your beef is not just with the family next door. You seem to despise many things about SE18 and the people who live here. Why the mock up of The Ship as McDonalds (your post 28/3/09) if not to rubbish the tastes and habits of those who live here? Might I remind you that the late Ray Kroc chose Woolwich for his 3000th restaurant and the first in the UK because he thought the town was typical of England and if McDonalds faired well here, it would do well all over the UK. I am proud that I am one of the first people in the UK to eat a McDonalds.

By the way, there is some contention about the derivation of the name Plumstead (your post 25/4/11). While there were orchards: “Plum Lane is evidence of a plum crop, and here we should mention that it is an established fact that in Plumstead the cherry was first acclimatised in England; the pippin apple ‘from over the sea’ was first grown here also”, there is an alternative explanation. “North of the road along which King Canute had translated the remains of St. Alphege from London to Canterbury, lay the river and the marshes. Hereabouts lived the people who collected from the wild geese, swans and herons of the marshes the plumes to ornament the dames and gallants of the court as well as to provide the quills”

And so: “You make your own choice on whether it was from plums or plumes that the name Plumstead is derived”.1

Dr X

1 Stanley Henwood – St. Nicholas Plumstead: A short history of church and parish.

Anonymous said...

Hello Dr Pangloss,

I am the long anonymous poster. Let’s call me Dr X and if I post again I will sign it thus (and, despite being born in a council house, I am a Dr). I am ‘anonymous’ only because I don’t have a Google account or a blog or an open account or a name / URL. But in truth I am no more anonymous than you.

I’m glad that you chose to live in Plumstead. It’s a lovely place. Welcome to my world.

But be honest with yourself. Your beef is not just with the family next door. You seem to despise many things about SE18 and the people who live here. Why the mock up of The Ship as McDonalds (your post 28/3/09) if not to rubbish the tastes and habits of those who live here? Might I remind you that the late Ray Kroc chose Woolwich for his 3000th restaurant and the first in the UK because he thought the town was typical of England and if McDonalds faired well here, it would do well all over the UK. I am proud that I am one of the first people in the UK to eat a McDonalds.

By the way, there is some contention about the derivation of the name Plumstead (your post 25/4/11). While there were orchards: “Plum Lane is evidence of a plum crop, and here we should mention that it is an established fact that in Plumstead the cherry was first acclimatised in England; the pippin apple ‘from over the sea’ was first grown here also”, there is an alternative explanation. “North of the road along which King Canute had translated the remains of St. Alphege from London to Canterbury, lay the river and the marshes. Hereabouts lived the people who collected from the wild geese, swans and herons of the marshes the plumes to ornament the dames and gallants of the court as well as to provide the quills”

And so: “You make your own choice on whether it was from plums or plumes that the name Plumstead is derived”.1

Dr X

1 Stanley Henwood – St. Nicholas Plumstead: A short history of church and parish.

Anonymous said...

WHY DID YOU BLOCK ME FROM POSTING FROM THE IP ADDRESS OF MY PC? I'VE HAD TO USE MY SON@S LAPTOP.

Hello Dr Pangloss,

I am the long anonymous poster. Let's call me Dr X and if I post again I will sign it thus (and, despite being born in a council house, I am a Dr). I am 'anonymous' only because I don't have a Google account or a blog or an open account or a name / URL. But in truth I am no more anonymous than you.

I'm glad that you chose to live in Plumstead. It's a lovely place. Welcome to my world.

But be honest with yourself. Your beef is not just with the family next door. You seem to despise many things about SE18 and the people who live here. Why the mock up of The Ship as McDonalds (your post 28/3/09) if not to rubbish the tastes and habits of those who live here? Might I remind you that the late Ray Kroc chose Woolwich for his 3000th restaurant and the first in the UK because he thought the town was typical of England and if McDonalds faired well here, it would do well all over the UK. I am proud that I am one of the first people in the UK to eat a McDonalds.

By the way, there is some contention about the derivation of the name Plumstead (your post 25/4/11). While there were orchards: "Plum Lane is evidence of a plum crop, and here we should mention that it is an established fact that in Plumstead the cherry was first acclimatised in England; the pippin apple 'from over the sea' was first grown here also", there is an alternative explanation. "North of the road along which King Canute had translated the remains of St. Alphege from London to Canterbury, lay the river and the marshes. Hereabouts lived the people who collected from the wild geese, swans and herons of the marshes the plumes to ornament the dames and gallants of the court as well as to provide the quills"

And so: "You make your own choice on whether it was from plums or plumes that the name Plumstead is derived".1

Dr X

1 Stanley Henwood - St. Nicholas Plumstead: A short history of church and parish.

Anonymous said...

Sheesh.

You can't even have an honest to god rant about the neighbours any more without being accused of genocide.

Classic uber-PC nonsense Dr Pangloss, don't take it seriously, please.

Er, Dr X, who said anything about class by the way? Considerate behaviour is classless, last time I looked. It's behaviour people are complaining about, not class. Most people are here because they like the frankly incomparable mix of race, class, age, and attitude you get around here and loathe the monoculture of somewhere like Blackheath.

Not that you're one to make genreralisations of people's behaviour based on class, are you Dr X? Er... are you?

Nigel said...

Well put,poster above me! While some of the points raised are interesting, allthis bleating on about class, rather than behaviour, smells of chips on shoulders. Which is understandable - particularly when subject to snobbery and prejudice.
But inverse snovbbery is still prejudice, so give yourself a break class warrior and enjoty the blog?

Plummy Mummy said...

This is all like Austen's Pride and Prejudice with some elements of misunderstanding methinks.
I just hope that the long term residents don't want to live in Brigadoon - things have to change and one element that causes change is discontent or an expectation that you can have what other boroughs have. Whatever one thinks of the local pubs etc, there is a woeful lack of cafes etc around here.
As for the noisy neighbour thing...I wonder how many would condemn Dr P if he thought that effing and blinding to your kids was acceptable. I'd hate to live next to that level of noise daily.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr Rant on X
Go away. You are boring and have a massive chip on your shoulder. You read into things too much. You are class obsessed and really need to take a chill pill and read another blog. Stop psycho analysing with your inverted snobbery. You're constantly telling Doctor P what you think he really means. All your analysing are your unconscious thoughts, no one else's. Does your ranting drive you? Make you feel better? Conflicts with your own identity and others around you? Angry in life? Go see a counsellor and have a rant don't block up this good blog. Stop telling people how they should think.

Anonymous said...

I am beginning to wonder why I bother living in Plumstead too. When I moved here I thought it was affordable (being in the public sector and all that) and green and had a sense of community.
Well I was partly right but the longer I live here the more I realise that "my kind of people" (and yes I have a right to choose who they are. Not based on class or colour but on taste and decency) are few and far between in the shire - and if there are more of them they keep themselves well hidden.
I find Plumstead increasingly filled with litter, graffiti and yobs. Not to mention dogs, swearing and antisocial behaviour.
Oh and I would move except the above behaviour seems to have done little to increase my house price. I wouldn't move to Blackheath though, it's full of chavs on a weekend....

Anonymous said...

Yeah, get a life Dr X you sado. Everyone knows who and what chavs are. Why should I go to work when these pondlife sit at home on the dole and do nothing? The reason all the pubs round here are shutting is they are full of these scum. If they don’t want to work they should get no dole and no house. This is where you can find the truth about what is happening to our country
http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/

Candide said...

Tsk, tsk, Anonymous.

Everyone knows that all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds. Everything is linked in a chain of necessity and there is no effect without cause. Things cannot be other than they are: for, since everything is made to serve an end, everything is necessarily for the best of ends.

Without chavs we would not have Wayne and Waynetta, Vicki Polard or Shameless to entertain us.

dimps said...

I understand very little of Dr X's argument. Is he/she stating that the behaviour of Dr Pangolss's neighbours is part of the Plumstead culture, and therefore should be respected and preserved?

I, too, am Plumstead born an bred. Should I then be ranting and swearing at my children all day? Would it be acceptable for me to spend night and day on my doorstep, talking loudly, swilling lager whilst allowing my children to run about, dodging between moving cars until 11 pm? Should I believe that the only acceptable commercial buildings are the aesthetically displeasing? Should I be happy to limit my gastronomy to Indian?Chinese/pizzas/burgers/kebabs/fried chicken?

As my answer to all of the above is a clear, "No!", Dr X expects me to upsticks and move to Blackheath.
Instead, I choose to remain in Plumstead because, I believe, the positives outweigh the negatives. That doesn't mean I am not allowed to try to improve it - and that includes trying to counter-act the effects the knuckle-draggers have on their children, at the school where I work.

Dr Pangloss - Log all disruptions caused by your neighbours and let the council know (and the housing association, if applicable).