Sunday, 17 September 2006

License app

Thanks very much to the anonymous 'lovely listener' who had commented on Plumsteadshire.

I have copy and pasted their comment below. An intelligent and informative piece of writing. Thank you very much.
Doctor Pangloss



Having been a licensee of many venues in my time, although not a local resident, I thought I might comment.

I can see from the other comments that there is strong feeling against the granting of the license. Is there also strong feeling against the previous license before the premises were closed ?

If there are many objections, the licensee will almost certainly push to have a new license granted that is similar, if not identical, to the previous license. Within a few years (next Brewsters is 2008 I believe) there will be an application to vary this license and get where they wanted to go anyway, or maybe small steps per year. So letting any license be granted could just be letting the true horror in by the backdoor.

The few but most effective ways I know to stop a license are...

1. Raise objections with the local police liaison for liquor licensing. If they go to meet the licensee (as they're required to do) after hearing many objections, they are less likely to give a favourable report back to the magistrate.

2. Raise objections with the public entertainments licensing officer at the council. From experience, it takes a lot to convince them that you have a reasonable case for a PEL, and more still to get the hours you applied for. Therefore, it's much easier to get a rejection than a grant.

If the license is granted, all is not lost.

1. Most late license grants are based on some very shakey foundations. Failure to provide "sufficient food" (not properly defined in law, but more than bags of crisps, usually something that requires cutlery) can invalidate the license beyond 11pm. If the late part of the license is granted in conjuction with a PEL (Public Entertainment License) then is can be invalidated by silly things like merely not having customers dancing to music.

2. Any interested party can request a review under section 51 of the Licensing Act 2003, where all of the objections you currently have can be re-raised but with case evidence of how the license has been misused.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Will there be an issue if the license does get rejected that will put off potential lovely bar owners from purchasing the site and turning it into a decent bar? I don't object to a pub being on this site, far from it the Common could do with a new, clean pub preferably one to attract more young professionals into the area but I don't want a dingy old den attracting more chav to the area.

Anonymous said...

very true..... that site is crying out for a young and trendy gastro pub ... we do not want to put potential buyers off that side of things!!!

Loads more young proffessionals are moving to plumstead but have to go to greenwich or blackheath for a nice drink and food

the empty shops as well are prime for coffee shops, delicatesen

so lets get on with it

I think we should speak to gastro chains like all bar one and see if they are interested .... worth a punt

Anonymous said...

Personally
I would prefer the premises not to become a pub at all. I think the borough is in need of more affordable housing, and that would be my preference. However, that is not the main point I wish to make.

What I wanted to flag up is an email i have had from someone else who was involved (unsuccessfully) to stop an application for a late night venue. His advice is that as local tenants we get proper legal representation even at this stage. he estimates inital costs could be in the region of 2000. Now on my own I havent got 2000 to spend, but I would be willing to make a substantial contribution if any other residents were interested in clubbing together. The larger the number of people we could get togther obviously the lower the per household cost. Is there any interest out there in doing this? If there is please say so on this blog and we can work out a way of making contact with each other.

mrsdp said...

I am moving in to the area and am sure more young professionals will follow - since we bought the house people can't believe how affordable the area is (let alone having to build affordable housing)??!, but we were almost put off by the lack of anywhere to go, there is no bar or restaurant near by that we would venture into and the Common would really benefit from somewhere a bit more up and coming. I see the estate agents have moved in always a sign that a Starbucks will follow (I hope, perhaps I shall write to them)! Otherwise I shall be cabbing it to Blackheath for my evenings out

lex said...

Exactly . . . i think we need to get an idea
of who wants what. . . not sure if the people in wernbrook want a restaurant pub at all or maybe it is just Bust ya rymes that they do not want

Where as us young proffesionals are absolutely crying out for somewhere to go

Anonymous said...

I just wrote this email to Meantime Brewery, who else can I send it to? :)

Hi,

I imagine this isn't the typical kind of email you receive but if you don't ask you don't get!

I don't how aware you are of Plumstead and specifically Plumstead Common but it's a lovely area, well served for quality Edwardian and Victorian housing, good transport links, several beautiful commons and an increasing number of young professionals moving to the area. 10 minutes bus ride from Plumstead Common is Woolwich Arsenal which is undergoing extensive redevelopment. Some of the key ones are:

The Woolwich DLR link is well underway and due for for completion in late 2008 http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extensions/woolwich/index.shtml
The Royal Arsenal development http://www.royalarsenal.com/vision.asp?navL1=vs
Redevelopment of Woolwich centre, affordable housing and new Tesco store
Greenwich Waterfront Transport
Thames Gateway Bridge
Crossrail Stop at Woolwich

Woolwich is improving but all these things are also helping to encourage new people to Plumstead. There are 3 pubs that directly serve the area around Plumstead Common, they're perfectly harmless but not exactly what you would call new or groundbreaking, typical old, local, London pubs, tatty and stagnant. There is one more pub though known as The Ship ( I just found this on on Google which will give you an idea of it's locale http://www.hhp-property.co.uk/downloads/details/557.pdf ) of Plumstead that is currently closed down. It's currently going through an application for a licence to become "Bust 'Da Rhyme Executive Lounge & Night Club". Protests against this application have begun ( http://plumsteadshire.blogspot.com/ ) as from the details obtained by the community so far it's not exactly the beginning of gentrification we were hoping for, we want to bring the area up not down. Many of my neighbours and friends in the area have longed for a decent gastro pub or coffee shop in the area for years, somewhere to relax peacefully with likeminded people enjoy a good quality pint, we're tired of having to travel to Blackheath and Greenwich for this. Myself and others believe The Ship is the ideal location for a pub which could kick start the area.

I know such decisions are made based on many factors rather than a simple email request but it really is a beautiful area which rivals Blackheath in terms of a quality location, I know many of the inhabitants of Plumstead would be very grateful to anyone who took the initiative and saw how good it could be.

Kind Regards

Anonymous said...

hmmm . . . looking for some kind of meaning of "bust da rhymes" I found that its part of some lyric of some rap song that really seems to express just kind of culture we need in Plumstead Common!

BW

Anonymous said...

well worth sending that email to as many places as you can (not to a Wetherspoons tho)! Also I quite like deli's, pizza, coffee, shoes and handbags if anyone else would like to open anywhere and take some of my hard earned cash will I will gladly fritter away in the locality!

The Headless 291 Driver said...

I've emailed beerintheevening.com with my previous email to see if they they would be interested in helping us out, maybe a banner ad or something like that. Maybe the creative ones amongst us could create one, a few pics of the common, one of the ship, some text a la "give us a decent pub".

I feel that this is becoming something bigger than preventing Busta from coming to Plumstead. We can make it into more than that, we can begin something, make people aware of the area and of our needs. Show people why Plumstead Common is a good investment for business and housing.

Where was that place in London a few months back that campaigned for a supermarket and got one? This is no different and surely a lot smaller on the scale of things too.

Anonymous said...

I agree that we all want better things for plumstead commong - however I am convince Busta da Rhymes is not it. Culture yes. Open till 2 and 3am in the middle of a residential area - no.

I do agree that from all of this we can strenghthen the 'community' and campaign for more, much I would urge people to still make sure they get those letters of objections in by the 5th of Oct.

The Last Boy Scout said...

What Plumstead Common needs is the gastro-pub/bistro that we were promised. After all, with the exeption of Spice Island, where else is there a sit down restaurant around the Common?

Anonymous said...

Come on guys this is great work .... lets contact local papers on this campaign ..... we dont want busta we want gastro .. they would love that

can see that on front cover of the mercury

Im a proffesinal photographer so i can take some great pictures of the common and send them to potentials as well if you like

If you got time maybe do a mock up of a gastro like you mcdonalds .... would give peeps a good idea

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK PLUMSTEAD!!!